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Episode 4 · 1 year ago

#4 Hunting in Conservation

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Welcome back to another episode of NatureLab! After looking at the feedback from our last episode shorter episodes are back but the debates are still steaming! Today’s episode is all about Hunting in conservation, we discuss everything from the UK hunting scene and the Fox Debate, to Mountain Gorilla killings in the Congo! We understand this episode may conflict with the beliefs of some viewers but that’s why we are here to bring people together and talk about these issues openly and eventually do what is best for the world! Feel free to head over to our twitter @nature_lab to take part in our poll and discuss Conservation in Hunting! #soivegotaquestionforyou

Hallo and welcome back to anotherepisode of Nature Ub. Today I've got the entire crew ot me and I were veryfir studio, eqe mashoder kitchen. You Guys Ma introduce yourselves, I'mdon back again, I'm China back again for another one: Oh Julia, it's great to actually have everyoneround again, Andyei, so much easier than being on line. Yeah online was abit difficult, but anyway, today we're going to be talking about conservationand mainly the hunting ampoachin part conservation. So today, guys I've gotquestion of you, voyse conservation. I think I'll start this one off only'cause. I know the on inside a lot of people. Do I'm not sure, on the actualdefinition, as the act of looking after the environment and everything in itand it's Aro, that's Ou job, yes, so mydlooking at the environment and theecosystems and all that living organisms O it's a prevention of wasteful use of aresource which I think is the human side of culsevation and then the otherdefinition is the specie. I see when I think conserpation. I don't actuallythink about that being polt. The definition you know the waste of theresource- FAR noever Os. Well, we KDOW because we're environmentlists O wefous al the species on the house up the protection and legal side of it. Rosanth, the General Hol overy, sauce and Profet, the general public will thinkconservation conserve. I conserve resources, oil, water food. So that'swhat INERAS, doubthful conservation means: Yerea all Ou, consorvationbiologists, it's about conserving habitats and species, whico MiG inhorropinions, obviously more bord yeah. It varies greatly and there's alsodifferent elements to conservation. You've got the legal side. Obat you'vegot the practical side where you go out...

...and do the research fal. Theorganization is that aim to conserve animals and species and resources, butthen there's also the learning side of it and the teaching side of it whereyou educate other people and talk about it like we're about Yo, Sawe M Meo,Julia, a Te do in a Morduoyeah at no, maybe wat mentioning the constirmationskind of changed all over the past four year of years, and then it's hard tokeep up with because it Geli so much a dsomany priorities for conservation.Everyone's got a different agenda to Proveye O was areferen. What was ostersreference, the hundred priorities, or something like that O or eversent Ye. He was basically sangin how many priorities the wor for different groups and different people.A I I've got question thow. You sayis changed dramastically over forty fiftyyears. Why do you think it keeps changing that?Why do you think it's so hard to keep on top of it er because circumstances,change policies, change, betterunderstanding of how conservationneeds to Worin he past O. I totally agree and Um we said we would talkabout today. Is The huntind andpocin par? Do you think that Huntin impotuneis one of the biggest drives for consurvation in certain species? Or yousay it's more of like a side thing for stuff that yeah, I wouldn't say it'sthe biggest drive. I think it's NEA Pochingmognosomo. I think you shouldalways ask to gir on the land. I think he should always have permission Ialways have when I have been hunting. I've always asked the folloner orwhoever owns, and my year Hefore I go N I've never proached in e ther. There'sthe break of the Glass Ther Ois Dan actually does conservation, Hunson y inthe past. Do you still do it now yeah? I used to do fishing as well, but Ihaven't on thine n a long time, but so how does it typical hunt work for you?Then, because, obviously, a lot of people are against it and myselfincluded the large scale sides of it, and so how does it work for you on asmaller scale, rather than a corporate...

...scale? Well, on Mal scale, morethinking about that local areas or in conservation you can narrow down olocal, regional, national, a Tan, obviousy global, so on a local scale.Hunting is needed because if too many foxes too man grabit, this is'n the? U Ks, by the way, I'm not sure o any other country legliins, but on ona local scale it it's very needy for for Li Tock to breed me, everyone, herea me, you know Um, so protection, af live stock is definitely one protection of the crops, so thateliminates rabbits yeahso on a local scale. That's where Igo. I have anything to do with regionall to mewith t big light likehoals, so call is where they' killed w like four onds at a time, yeah nd thegirl was preo ut that thats, where it begins to become damaging because itputs a dent in the population becaus ob osy the population, s have a certainamount to be able to survive, which is an aim of conservation of hispopulation conservation. So I'm assuming when you go hunting, becauseit's a very much smaller scale. You are only taking a sort of fraction. Do youhave like a guideline you stick to for going for certain age range of animalsor genders, or anything like that? No, I will never kill Youn or anmother. ofemales were tryd to Litfora as well e ICAN, repeduce, so usualy won't come tothe end of the season on EA six Maloma males, yeah, idont mails when Yon I doagree with Callin. In some cases, Li t there are very few cases wherepopulation is overwe know that vpopulation happens. It does quiteeasily happen, especially with animals that reproduce very quickly andreproduce. Many at the same time, ant athes, quite anarmd, rabbits are knownto kind of half multiple offspring admultiple occasionsor. Therefore, if you...

...have a rabbit in the area, I canimagine for farmers and things like that. E would get very much case offover population very quickly, which becomes very damaging a lircal scale.Well, there's one case in Scotland that I heard about, but there was eightythousand star that well der or more national bar phenomena, there's a largeams. They Ha. There was no other way the had to call them otherwise it'd bebotherwise, H, 'd He'd get pochid he get onto and it would a e whitemous. Soif you do a coll, you have a limit. It is a lot to kill at once, but at leastthen there's norimal hunting for a while to let the populations regro, Ois,there's always a sinle sound, there's, always a fluctuation between a call andthen the population rebuilding itself yeah. Definitely we don't just MASSACRt e Ust goto spree, Ou, knokill everything, and so that so, when you gohunting, do you do? Do you use the resources of the animal as well so sayif you was Huntin Li e, like rabbits, for instance it? What we're talkingabout? Would you then't use the me other rabbit to feed or Ao Yeah? I knowpeople that do idosowe sell, Eto, butchers, nd we eat it and then theairbones are usually justporit ov with with the cut down in the meat butThutas it. We do try and use as much a we can. Unless it's Stuf t you Hunn,like foxes, wwhat do Youen to do once. You'vehunted the Fox, then 'cause Oviouy with rabbits and things like you said youcan use the meat you can sell it on words, um to kind of bring some money back intothe local area through trade. But how does it work with foxes it? It's kindof harsh some people just leave them there for other animals reet likebeliral Ot budgers. Well, do it Madcis a evil yeah ia? Now the nicest bere possible badgesare lovely, but you get too close to a badger in it will kill you or somepeople use. Useitas me for dog for hanting dogs.They just end of dispesing on them, Wewe de hi, in her Nyeah I as Goingtosay, especially in the UK, there's always been a master to bate betweenfox hunting. Things like that and Um. I...

...always Wonde delide. The People Tho doFox not just for trophy hunting, which im very controve nton ye. So I yo likethat on. I feel like it's a very strong point to mention that, although you area local scale, hunter sure we say you are very against trophy hunting andthings like that, because it's a very different scale of things. I thinkthat's the main thing that comes into play. When people talk about hunting,is they don't talk about which scale they're talking about it? ATSO becauseit changes so you're very localized in it, whereas obviously, trophy huntingis quite a kind of global things in different areas, there's differentforms of trophies for you to have, which is very damaging in kind of moreobanized areas as welllike ive mad people th go to avew on the other night'cause. It's not need. There's no need to go out. Toan Elphin, her's Notye isnot yet you know because they have the money and theycan they do it. Now. It's not sport for them, anymuch to play it yesbut back to the FOK ont. I agree with the way they re doing itnow for trials and stuff like that. But no, I don't agree with watchingbloodhounds re Wal Fox. He knows a Scotch Yeah, I don nee, for it the waythat Yos Av dogs iis wrong, because us well Terry Terryes, down e tolewhistles bout in the Fox yet and then ageting shot, but that's okay for kindof Baiting. It is kind of a kind of practice that you see generalizedanyway in most wanting things. If your using dogs, they do tend to activelysearch for them because they naturally have better senses than leader, whereasusing the dog as the reason the Fox is killed to me is just kind of incientmain because you would've want to be hunted and then kin of torn apart you'd.Rather it just be made quick. It's almost psyrcotic as well, because it'slike it it joyosifhthe joy is in the chase of it.Not The there's. No like we're doing this forconsotation. There's no co, yeah,...

...there's no reward, there's no good umreason in behind, in my opinion, but when you're bolting a Fox from borough,you obviously doing that for a reason you know you're Taing, O Eliminat, hefox a lot quicke, you notis, chasing it round, acres and acres, an aces becauseit's form you know, there's a big GALP, ou. So Yeah we've talked a lot about of Um local UK foer, sorry at local and theUK, former Funtin, like downsaid abouthunting rabbits or huntingfoxesbutwhy. Do you G was your guy's opinion on more international andglobal scale, things such as Ar Poechin such as like Shark Finning, for example?Well, I think this this one's pretty much my thing. To be honest, an sharpthinning has and always will be one of the biggest problems, and the biggestone of the moment is obviously by catch and overfishing and which again isanother over exploitation of resources and, however, Shark Thinning Hasnalways will be an issued because it is a very cultural practice. So the sharksthemselves are caught n and they are pulled to the side of the boat and ther.Dorsal thing which is Tho finthat, is on. The back is cut off often with avery blund knife, and it's cut off very roughly. It's not done clean at all arn,and then they will quite often just leave the shark wherever they'veobviously found it, and and without the dorsal fin they caubalance themselvesand the Dorsal thin is for anti rolling. So without the Dorsal in the sharp willcontinuously roll, it will be unable to swim and ninety nine percent of thetime it dies because it just cannot survive without it. So quite often thisis used for mendicine. An soup is the most common one, but the issue that Ihave is that it doesn't actually taste of anything because they add chickenstock to the taste of the soup, so the...

...soup itself tastes like chicken, notsharp, because sharp fin doesn't have a taste yeah, it's more of a delicacy, anoverin foreign countries sn it's more of like it. It's also used formedicional practices and there's certain beliefs, particularly insoutheast ager, and things like that. Obviously, ther kind of food provisionis very different to ous, and so quite often their dishes will be seen asrarer, thorar tastes and you know kind of cultural, herbal remedies and thingslike that and t the most prevalent issue with shocks at the moment inrelation is to Carona virus. So Shark squaline is a type of oil that is foundin their livers and in their overbodies and is often a binding agent that isused in vaccines. So one of the main petitions at the moment is to stop theuse of squarline in Coron virus macines, because there are other alternativesthat people do not realize exist. T is not the only oil outthere that allowsthe flow of chemical components into a vaccine, so with the scale that theywould be needed to create grod a iris vaccine. It would be extremelydetrimental to the sharp population which is very miriard of the wailingindustry. Back when Oousy, we used whale oil for lamps and things likethat, particularly in America. It's sort of mirroring that change, andif we go down the road again, we've only just got most of our shackpopulations back and sort O on tracks. WIF, we go downe again, it's it'sreally going to damage the population and therefore econsystem. This is likewhat we're going to learn about, like with the policies and priorities,rather eis, obviously for os a priority opreserve, the SHERP population,whereas for the General Public Prioriti, is the VAXEES. I think it's more aboutfinding the alance between the two. There always has to be a balence. Therealways has to be a benefit in a cost, and the two of them have to be equalnor outraying, one or other, because...

...then it really does become a case ofright wall. My Personal Prioriti is this and we're going to go with this,regardless of what it is and regardless of the consequences, which is obviouslynot great m, it's very similar to other trade issues that have been going onfor years, such as the ivory trade Um Ano Max. You did a little bit ofresearch, Rou that didn't you just Kino. Yes, I long Agalobo, Ive retred, soessentially what the Ivy Trade is. Is? U A commercial trade, what is oftenillegal for our international waters and is the trade of m lie animal Tief,promily tosting animals, which the Lod common thing is the Asian and Africanelephants, which I believe Pehas sofar the most from the average trade, but etalso ticks hipopotamous, warus and nowals as well. For that Tus, andessentially, like I said in these, animals, are being poached for thattoss of ivory and for an animal such as the African Oasian elephant of tiselephants in general. So Fas has roanmed our planet way longer thannosefor. Nearly like fifty million years ago has now becomed, veryfrightened from the acts of human impacts are not just poching, but alsoa climate change and habitat loss as well, which are anted to pecend humanimpact, while Cima change is Maorit human impact as well as also naptural,impacts bufor. It said if African in some African countries, ifwe don't do anything of this left and check, we could potentially lose fiftypercent of all remain in African elephants left and it's according tothe WF, they said, they're losing to aroundtwenty k elephants per year and thee average las to one every twenty fiveminutes for the year. everytwenty five minutes, yeah Herwas ISN. In the timethat we've been filming this, which is...

...seventeen minutes a few more minutespast and another elephant, will be pouched or repoached here. If we leavethe SOM check and knowabout you, but to me I think the African elephant is such an iconicspecies for our world. It's the waismatic for the area as it's called,because it is a very you see it a lot, a a larger character in wo associatenwith the area. Exactly te the world's largest land mmammle right now livingLa Mamml, I think it would be a tremendous loss if we would lose and ofa species of elephant from things like the ivory trade. Like IU, said, it'snot just elephants of effect Abou, this as Warris nowals and Hipopotamus aswell, which ar also three more incredible species of animals. What wehave in our world there's no oter animal. What is like a Hypopotamus,andnomel or Waros, I think that's part partft. The problemwith it is that people cause people associate more with elephants. Ye GotMore Protection Iwas to, despite both anedia coverage than some of thosexactly despite and both dering through the same issue and a lot more peopleassociate themselfes, or I understand a the elephants, an carrywil more yearlike Anoyyeah, exactly and also he's not just like around Asia and Africa,where Iviata huge is in the UK as well. Lik We've had we've put on bands forher. I think it was after nineteen, forty seven we put onaband to stop earl EAGO W I retrade throughout the country and around that time, int around twothousand to two thousand and fourteen the UK boarder force. They took onethousand illegal ivory products, so a...

...still inlarge scale today, even withthese bonds on isn't there a thing I saw where the ivory itself can be m, itcan be sort of. I can't think if it's injected or if it's just kind of coated,but it's a pink pigman that does not damage tha, it doesn't damage theanimal, but it destroy ioien shape, O Imostthe, ivory, pink Oll. You know itkind of ruins the actual color of the ivory, which means it would be and UNyou know, unusable to poaches and things- and I don't know the scale ofit at the moment, but I think Itud be a pretty good thing, because it'snontoxic doesn't hurt, the animal doesn't affect it in any way whatsoever.It does just protect it from poaching which, if it could be done at a largerscale, could potentially help destroy the Ivr, not destroy the ivory problem,but cevele reduce their opy bi. Another thing I heard many years ago, but I didhear that Um elephants are sl very slowly start toevolve without tusks to prevent them being poached, and if that's true, ifthat is the case, the fact that humans Aruman impact, are pushing amagnificent beautiful creature to go that far fhrough revolution, it Butaeaten to lose something. What is meant for to protect? I just because we're killing, for it issad atout the severe revolutionary pressure, then that Ar somthat we mighthave to keep an eye out for kind of future generations. 'cause Osee, thatsomething is not going to be immediately apparent to us right now,but if it's noted more and more over the next few kind of generations andyears and things like that, then it could pretencialy potentially be a bigchange issue conservation world and in evolutionary biology as well. This iswhyu conservation, F, education, so important death lowe. We spoke about it. The O will notGei enough attention. Theast foll as...

...well GN, the General Republic involved,a one of the main things and eat happen, Agis one of the biggest things, becausewithout the public support, this will never go through WSA. Speaking aboutmedia coverage, obviously over the last couple of months has been the reallybig coverage on the tiger king and issues with Lin, cubs and tigers, and so lions are like one of the mostprevalent charismatic animals Ol the African area as well as oviously. Igoes backside the elephant, the Wi Tieoin you've been brought upwith sowith the lines and tigers, and what happens is quite often n tourists willgoover and they will kind of go to these places. Thar are conservation runin quotation marks, and what actually happens is that these cobs are, youknow, not actually source properly, that quite often just kind of around,and what happens is once they reach Acerin Age and and they're not usefulas a cub anymore. They have no instinct to get away from people. Why? Often theLions and tigers are poached and then the people that cared for the lionaltiger as a cub will often receive the money and the hunter always gets hisOll, her trophy Um. So you know when you go somewhere and they say thatthey're conserving them or their orphans or you know, they're beingreleased into the wild. You really do need to your background checks and makesure that they are actually going to where they're supposed to. I know, there's been a big issue withGerrillus an similarly an in the same kind of area, but for a differentreason. I'm going to pass on to Juliet 'cause. That's her little thing so offyou go eh, so I did a project about this last year. Looking at garrillasand this ties into public Alan of Salot case they've been having his shoestrying to concert grillas ta, particularly because Har's been alot ofpolitical problems. In recent years, the on the national pollops they've hada LOTF poaches coming in and killing...

...not to girs just to annoy thegovernment. Yeah, that's a pretty big backclash. That's not just you know,kind of sending an angry letter THAs very especially s. He wasn't so littlemountain grills last can't remember the exapt o Babo. Where is this again? Isit conghonger yeah M, particularly in the FIR genational Halk Yeah? I think yeah and Um? It was Sayng,I think in tweny fourteen it was. They had those Everillin Masaco and Oltso.He olde ot. The girl was werekilled, I as terrible. They did this justabacklash the government for a political aroning awareness. That's the point where it doesn't: com,hauntedy conthat's, where it becomes just pure mindless. At that point. Yeseehow the Documentaar as following the park ranges and they have to go aroundjust making shillthere's no one onside such a danger of strob as well. LikWasyo hear all these people being killed just for time, yeah track GS. That's a very brisky job.It's a dangerous job. To do anyway, ecause Gerrillous, Yo forocious, to saya Gerilla can be very inpredictble anespecially an Amout believ itkindoftied into Um genocide in Vreandon alsos, the Democratic Republic of Congra. Theyhave a lot of ties to Belgium, so I think they were yeah it alties into independence. You kno make sure the governmentdoesn't keep protectin this area, so they can exploise Theso, othe parRangers harmed them cause that remind me of the time where I believe it wasthe last black. I know one of the species of black rano was nowunfortunately extinct butum, they found the last one in the wild andit had a twenty four hour. Seven, like...

...military guard, patecting the shrouderfrom poaches ISIT's horrible. I no like. Unfortunately, that is the case with alot of animals and things that we are going to see eventur overtime, things,tow change M, obviously, with the buckgrie being extinct, that'scompletely gone. We're never going to get that back similar to many otherspecies, and quite a lot of species are extinct in the wild, which means thatsometimes you can see them in captivity. However, they can't then be releasedback into the wild, because theyare extencting that area theree been noworth or breedom exactly so it's it's a very troublesome future that we couldpotentially go into, which is why conservation is such a big thing. So,where I work at a deep, an a lot of things, we do is awarisand concirvation,so we have the red list and the IUCIAN redlist is a species kind of websitewhere you can and check these status of e species inthe world, and so you've got Um critically endangered anddangered. Youknow near threatened, Mor vurable and extenctin the wild and things like that,and so each species that has been investigated will be given a title andsorly for a fact. These zeppersharks and things like that ar clustersendangered in the areas and which is why we kind of work with the breedingprograms and things a lot of conservation, inzoos and things isabout breeding and awareness. So lot of itis teaching the public so canotizehim with how you can help realing, yet tenical, diputies, esay phones, Orr sor, did say make sure Orpinsol donot disturb, and you could also tell me no vibration, so o organizations and things work,wave and conserving things. So in relation to the sharp thinning andovousy anal poaching and the Shark Trust is the U K one, but they also doa lot of work and with the Red List and...

...and ACN and Viaza, which is the BritishAssociation of Zoos and aquariums. So they are again one of the biggesteducators and promoters of conservation and INZUS and aquariums, and also set alot of the regulations for breeding programs and things. And there is alsothe EO, which is the European association and there's lots ofdifferent organizations that you can follow. An WW is a big one for kind ofglobal things and that's like the big main mconservation effort of Yudevif.Isn't it theyhave always doing different projects for tons andunderaspintmost a funding to smaller kind of more localized areas as well?So it is really important to kind of vew research and if you can supportthem, even if it's not donating- and it's just you know, sharing a post,offacebook or old witter. I think it's also important to get import in contactwith yourrlocal community as well, especially to do with the hauntingagain that Ta Eo. We have to have anything todo with that. I O see e, that's not their job, so gen to know you evengoing to know the hunting community in your local community will benefit itand also contacting oi local foriters. Like Dana said th regarding to Humptonin conservation, they were also educate people, an the public on howit's done. proberly Notto, not just mass this entire Um, this entire thingof hunting being such a mass and negative thing for animals, because,yes in the lare cases, is negative, such as poaching and the Ivory Tra andsharting and etcetera that, like we said beforehand, I is used incontervation cause. Sometimes Assen species might have tobe called in a certain area to protect the rest of the on Ae Ese. I no eventin basis. Species such as: U Linefish,...

...they're, very ivasive, around manydiffeculries around the world and they are absolutel Devastatiin a ravage, anpeople it is they they outcompete other animals in t e Ogalaryo for resources,so they actually breed and kind of overpopulate. The area disbalances theyEqualybriam of that SPEC, Thou spakes, so quite often, particularly in America, and thingslike that. If an invasive specieis found, theywill kind of just go out and call the invasive species to protect the area nd.So it is not always a direct negative. It can also be a management system aswell M. Obviously, corporate scales and things aren't really management, ter,more profit driven, which is obviously what we don't agree with and, howeverlocal ize scales, and if it is the best option for other animals in that areaor the environment that needs protecting in that area, then it canpotentially be the better option. Yeah. I do definitely agree. I also dobelieve that all of conservation, not just theHuntingside, does need to be educated to people in the public, because it's alot more intricate than people believe I was. I was dead dead against it andbefore everything, because I never got to speak to someone like Don, whoobviously does it on a local scale, an who does it to sort of regulate thearea and things like that like he does it properly, and I've never had thechance to speak to anyone about that, because you don't often hear that sideof things unless you are kind of studying the topic, and so I think it'sreally important that particularly you've got your point across, because Inever had a chance to kind see that, and I think it's really important thatpeople need to be aware that there is a positive side to it. Obviously, it's asmaller Scalle, but it is still a large positive fufting. I think that's whyhunting and consurvation needs to be included in consurvation when it's toreducation, Ye Isit is power, and you can't leave out nith this devive thatKegang water, an wine. We talked about...

...brieflyay levels. U In regards toheather and the way it's burnt to come back again thes. I know it's not thesame, but again that local small scale,management of a species of you know kind of plant that isregulated and I feel like if I'd have been taught something like that. Butwith rabbits and things like that in sort of a levels N, even tocs, to befair would have been an imension of it in a paper or something would have beenrelevant and it would have given me that kind of broader scale opinion thatI didn't have at that point, and I think that would be really important.Wy, the R S PCA, N Orerspb as well, have a lot to do with schools. I do'want to walk Trouh, local bofirst outs and Secondr schoolsand. He alwaysconfusing me while they leave out so much about them, because theyre th,theyare game shows and stuff like that they promote their stuff through on toSoita, always bactles. Meanwhile, they resed e how they don' include T. Iunderstand why they do Includi, because because it has got fo such a negativeinig, an imanage that complect on Je, especially for young people. You don'twant to put that in Thei, head Wat. You know Y Y, get al SI veryist Yei said eis something what niece petalked about, because if we don't bring your obbesalways going to have this NEC to view Younow exactl. It is quite a negativething, but it isn't always negative at different scales. I think when you talkabout hunting in conservation as an element of conservation, you need toseparate it out into the scales. So you need to separate the local, theregional burten national, the global. It really needs to be separated andstudied at each level an are een, categarazed, a S. it's not just huedlight hunting calling trophioncin the Oll Efron they're, all different itdoesn't need to be put under one big kind of jumbo word often is verynegative in tisexample. A lot of it is really just doing your research like.If you are someone wh, wants to be...

...involved with animals and things thatyou don't quite want to. You know support the wrong side of things. It isvery important to get in touch with the area of going to be in whether thus, alocal area like Dan suggested or you know, like Max, suggested the globalkind of WWF industry. It needs to be something that you look at and youreally kind of evaluate you know. What can your input be? What is the outputgoing to be as well, because whatever you put in you've got to think of WEAthat is being directed afterwards, yeah well yeah, I think w'clober. Now sorry, it's been a bit more of aserious episode thees, but we weorfor. It was something we should talk about.It was, u a part conservasion. What we, as we said, M, has not really beentalked Bot too much to thos. Personally Whi kindo wanted to Har Aro yeah. Ithink it's very important for you thatiar sayin as well, but yet we hopeyou enjoy subsoas much as we enjoyed it. I certainly did IE. Definitely I shaldLen aquire on more than a fourwd were all a little bit nervous because it isa very controversial topic, so we just want to put it out there thateverything talked about in this podcast is entirely our own opinions. Yeah O.We might even rput something on titeabout, whether it's God Al Boud, wemixe. Yet how do you guys feel about it after listening all before listening,you know see if your sandpoints have changed Um. It really was one that wejust kind of wanted to touch on, and you know give you the information thatyou may do with what you choose. We do get inivoled the audience as well,especially these PASTU absodesesor, O Tin Yeah right anyway. Thank you forlistening. We Ar Nature Love, sign up.

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