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NatureLab

Episode 3 · 2 years ago

#3 The Animal Debate

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Welcome back! First of we would like to formally apologise for the length of the episode, we understand the demand is for our shorter episodes. However! This one is well worth the listen as today we try to convince Juliet (The Moderator) and you, the audience why we think our individual animals are the best! We cover everything from the stigma of the animals to the reproduction stratergies and rituals! At the end of this podcast head over to our Twitter: @nature_lab to vote your winner of todays Animal Debate! 

#soivegotaquestionforyou

Hello and welcome back to nature lab. I'm Max. I'm joined again with my freak friends Dan, Juliet and China. Today we're doing our first episode on something actually heavily animal related, and today we're doing a debate between a few of us and we're going to have a moderator, which I'm going to pass over to now. Juliet, would you like to take the stage? Yes, a welcome to episode three. So, as Max said, we are doing our first animal to boot, so it needs to be it's three of our podcast members will do their best to persuade each other, the moderator and our audience member, that chosen animal is the best. So at the end of the episodes, the moderate ord to turn and who they believes the strongest of it. But will also hold a poll on our twitter few of the audience to give us your opinion. So let's start with some ground rules. Make sure your arguments are and biased, no ganging up on one personal volume, and make sure you stick to the environment your animals found in, so it's not said I am moderate today. Let's start by allowing our panelists to introduce their animal. Maxj want to go first. Yeah, my animal today is crocodiles and more relating on the Saltwal Crocodile. Actually. Okay, who wants to go next? So my animal is the wolf, the Gray Wolf specifically. I know it's a Land Momal. Even though I do take marine biology, I know fair bit about this animal. And China, I've chosen the Zebra Shark. So it's one of my favorite sharks and I'm going to be trying to convince you guys why it's my favorite and why I think he's the best. Okay, fantastics, and now you've introduced your animals, let's get right into the debate. Our first topic is the origin and avolution of your animal. So tell us why your chosen animal has the most interesting origins. Well, so, we all know that crocodiles have been around since the dawn of dinosaurs and they were actually thriving before the dancers reached their big peak. They first emerged around two hundred and forty million years ago in the Mayozoic area, which is where the Crocodilla order be began to be the top of the food chain, and they come from a group called pseudo cessations, and pseudo cessations are as a sub group of a major division of another group called the Archosaurs, and the archosaurs are the most common and recent ancestor of birds, of crocodiles. To sudo cessations would be the crocodile versions, and only four suborders I've actually survived since to the present day, since this, which are crocodiles, alligators, Caymans and gariels. I'll go from mine for the wolf. Now, from fossil records, the Wolf beared in Europe around eight hundred thousand years ago, during the middle of the placetone era, in the midd latitude and North America. It became well established in Europe, though, around for four hundred kill years ago, through all all the records from Siberia and Alaska. So the the idea is that the great wolf may originated somewhere there. Since then may mainly in North America. Now, that was eleven to four hundred million years ago, so a little bit before. The ancestor is the dire wolf, which was basically a bigger version of the normal W so that survived with the giant soloth and North America and the Sabertooth cat. But the gray wolf appeared on the south of the eye sheets around ten hundred thousand years ago in the same area. Everybody knows as well with Wolf that they've got everybody. Well, a lot of people have dogs at home. So wolves have had an interaction with humans for a long, long time. There is a map, there's a small amount of evidence that hunt togetherers may have got their techniques from hunting with the wolves. So, if you think about it, wolves hunting packs were able to take down larger prey than themselves. Everybody knows that. Meanwhile, you've have you've got our ancestors that still picking berries out of trees. So how did we evolve from that, from that vegetarian almost diet, to now more of a Omnivore die. I knew we were scavengers before, but I think there is evidence they're getting their techniques from watching the wolves and then even forming a bond with wolves, which is how you see the old paintings of Monkey Wolf. Yeah, K paintings. That's where I'm looking for. Thank you. Man and Wolf working together. So what would happen is the wolf of track down the prey and then man was used the spears and their tools that they've developed to take down the prey. So that's like the actual evidence we've got for it. But then there's also wolves and stuff like northern mythology. So you've got fenrea and skull and Haiti and Ragunar rock stories about wolves like Little Red Light riding could there's loads of cases of that. Throughout human history. The wolves have definitely had part of their origin with humans and it would explain why we've developed the phrase mom's best friend and why we domesticated the wolf. But I think that's really fascinating. Yeah, so it's like they've always been by our side then, since the record show, yeah, we've always been they've always been there. And if you think it does make logical sense that we evolved from age which are mainly, you know, vegetarian based diets, now more of you probably see a lot more people eating meat when you would the carnival die, and...

...it makes sense that they watched other animals get bigger and from eating in that kind of food. So what watching the evidence of hunt together, as watching wolves make, makes sense in my opinion anyway. HMM. So you mentioned earlier as well is that they were derived from a species known as dial wolf. Yeah, which they're there. They're like the really large. The like kind of like gray walls nowadays, aren't they? But they're a lot, whole key, a lot bigger. Anyone is sing game of thrones, they are the animals depicted as the house stocks animal. Yeah, so they are bigger version of the gray wolf and I think they have. All the dial wolf evolved because the prey was so much bigger at the time. As the prey, as the larger prey, died out, it was better to be more of that scavenger based rather than being these big honking animals. They can't be in as bigger packs because a kill will not feed that many big animals. So I think that's why the gray wolf how lived, the Dial Wolf. Yeah, you see that in a lot of oldumn day well, all the prehistoric crocodiles as well, because there was a species known as the down Sukus Watch. It's quite like our nowaday alligators, but they would grow to thirty, two forty feet long because the prey then was huge that they could take down such a massive prey and they could afford to be that large. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, sorry, just putting it channing up and not a chance to speak, but she had. So what do you like to give us your opinion on? Yeah, sorry about China. It's all right, great. So, as most of us know, including the listeners, sharks have been around for time. They've been around literally for as long as people can remember. They were in historic stories as sea monsters and things like that. They're evolved over about four hundred and fifty million years, so that's a lot of time for species to diversify and evolve. So the Zebra Shark was first recorded in one thousand seven hundred and fifty eight, and since then there's been loads of debate over its actual scientific name, because the juveniles actually have stripes, hence the name's ever shark, but when they turn into adults these stripes almost disintegrate into spots. So people originally thought that they were actually two separate species. They didn't realize that they were the same. So and till about nine hundreds they were still debating about whether or not it was the same animal. The original name for it was Stegostonea Fasciatum, which I'm probably absolutely butchering the name. I never took Latin so please don't judge me. Since then they've been using it and it was only last year, so two thousand and nineteen, that they actually changed it back to the former name of Stegostoma Tigranum, and that's because the name actually fits better with its biological classification. However, whether or not they decide to change it in the coming years as a different matter. So really, several sharks have been around, probably longer than most people realize, and obviously it's only recently that we've actually become aware of these and obviously come to love them. Really, why do you think that is China that we don't know an office? It because there are at such depths, or are they just difficult to come by? So Zebra Sharks are actually quite easy to find. These guys usually don't go any deeper than sixty two meters, and so most of the time you'll find them on like sandy platforms. Most of the time you'll see them when you go scuba diving in coral reefs. So it's usually the kind of western Pacific and Indian Ocean, so tropical subtropical regions. But basically because they are a less unknown species of shock like, they're not as popular as say, the Great White, which is another favorite of mine, or tiger sharks or things like that. They're not as kind of covered by the media as those type and so when it comes to actually researching them and things, there's obviously a lot less demand for it, if you will. So I think it's definitely they kind of bordering. It's more recently that there's a lot of studies been done on them, obviously because of them being in more aquariums and things like that, that we've really got to kind of know what these animals are and kind of where to look for them and things like that. Okay, so you've all got really interesting points for their star stop. So I'd like to ask about the environment your animal lives and what can you tell us about the adaptations your animal possessors that allow it to survive in this habitat, and why is your animal better than the other Choden animals in this context? That's crocodiles. They range in different habitats. The all aquatics and me a quartake. There's around twenty three species of them total in the world and they mainly live in swamps, marshes and wetlands, and Estu is somewhere for them, so for it to be murky water. So they're dark colorations on their skin, is able to blend in with the murk and the muck in the water and because the very opportunistics and ambush type predators as well. So they love to have a place to hide and sit. But, as the name suggests, with the Saltwater Crocodile, they can live coastal, they can live in salt water,...

...like high salinty water compared to the other freshwater species. And these so across or crocodiles was have a big range from brackish to fresh waters of eastern India, Southeast Asia, northern Australia and have even been spotted far out at sea. And one thing, what is probably one of my favorite things about these crocodiles, is that they have they have to spend a lot of the time submersion into water and since they're not fully aquatic, they still brea there. So what they can do? They have a valve at the back of their froat which can close when they submerged to prevent them from drowning, and then it also means they can keep their mouth underwater open underwater as well. They would like to say, yeah, I owed at this, what I found out. I've always really cool and they like to sit with the mouth open and usually they wait for something to like a fish from pass and this snapp it shut real quick. So it's really beneficial for them to have this mouth underwater open. They can stay submerged for around an hour or more. And Tho also, like I said earlier, the capable friving and full silinte salt water and salt water crocs. They able to swim to thirty two kilometers an hour. And the and the also need to protect their eyes and ears and nostrils while the submergion as well and these dankmurky waters. So what they do? They have transparent eyelids where helpertect their eyes, so they but the submerged. They shout their transparent eyelid so it protects the I from the water. And they're incredibly well adapted to judge distance of prey. So you know, when you're laying under water and you look up to the surface and you look out the right beyond the surface, it looks so just started in, you commonly tell where abouts it is. Crocodiles will be able to figure out and know exactly how far where that prey is, how much preer power they need to put in their tail to jump up and when the right moment strikers. And another good finger as well is that they have such a unique body type. The way it shaped is that their eyes, ears and nostrils will be above the surface while the rest of the body submerged, and they can lay there from motionless for hours, so they can still breathe for the nostrils out, they can still scan around at the top and still will be well camouflage underneath. They also have a very thick plate at hide to act as armor when they get into a fire. We're not just crocodiles but with some of a prey as well. And another thing as well is that they have a lateral process of the spine which is joined to interlotting interlocking bony plates on their doors or scales by some ligaments. These are semi rigid, so the still quite flexible but still quite hardy as well, and this allows the structure allows for them to be more efficient to transfer energy to their tail, because what they do is when they're lying in wait, they use their tail as like a lift to push them out of the water. All the power comes from the tail. Is such a powerhouse and muscle. This tails like it could probably break bone if it was slap you full spat or whatever. We want to feel the sailing under bar. Oh No, you don't want to be hit by one of those tails. Another thing as well is, yeah, like I said, they could just be stationary and the tail has enough power and muscle to produce propel them from a stationary spot in matter of seconds out of the water like you just brew a blinking and eye. You'd be having jaws wrapped around you. That's not scary? Yeah, and their nostrils can also be closed by some membrane as flaps, so when they underwater, water won't go up the nostrils. And Their Eyes Have Vertical Slip pupils which are narrow in the light and when it becomes dark the widen so they can see easier. And these are quite knocked on animals as well. So they do a lot of hunting at night. Okay, right, so got yeah. So the best best made for me to answer this question is I've got to case studies. I've got one on the yellow stone introduction of wolves and then one on the Chernobyl studied one. There are some like basic adaptations at wolves after living in the environments or everybody who's they live usually in that winter mountaine regions. So one thing they'll have is if anybody's ever tried to walk in snow or even tried to run, you know that a bigger thought is way better. So she wolves will have on their feet they'll have the snowshoe effect where as they step their foot broadened, which increases the surface area, allowing them to more effective movement in the snow. That's if you can imagine having to change Caribou or elk or anything like that. They are fast animals, so in adaptive. Imagine it to go and catch prey if you're wearing might still asters or some exactly image of wolves in here good. They've also got obviously thick coats in winter, but when they sleep they slip with their tails covering their nose, so that holds the warm are. So when they exhale over their feet and nose, that warms them and then when they inhale the...

...air is filtered through the tail, which is so they are they're getting back in is also warm there, so it's not that's what keeps them warm during these really cold nights and winter. So that's pretty cool. Yeah, so as well in winter the hunt with larger packs because if they can hunt in large packs, they can hunt bigger and more animals which will feed, you know, the bigger yeah, the bigger pack in the bigger animals. There was a study doing on wolf populations in the Alps that found they didn't just increase their numbers overall in seven years. They found that the majority of wolves were also young, and this was because of the social higher archy, and so younger wolves can be more fertile. If I go on to the yellowstone one, so they were first introduced. A pack introduced in yellowstone was called the druids. So they help population of boomed in yellowstone. So there was there was plenty of food, but the elk killing the environment because they were eating so much of the plantations. So these druids that were able to do to build a massive pack. They peaked at thirty seven members in two thousand and one and they add a massive, massive territory. Now it's not the jury pack. There was a rival pack that overthrew them, which meant that not only one package succeeded, it meant that other packs and made and were now, you know, competing for that power in such a new environment and new place, which was brilliant. So it shows they can overcome these these other other areas. They also had a positive impact on beaver populations and I think it was squill populations as well in the area. The last one, if I just go over Chinno, but as well, so everybody knows what happened in Chin novel. It was a terrible disaster, but because the lack of human activity there, other mammals were able to take over the area. Wolves were one of those. So nature's absolutely thriving over there since we've left. And they were found with radiation in their systems, which was definitely expected and I won't I won't lie and say there was no clear indication of the health of the animals on their study, because that's not what they're studying. It was just are they survive in there, which they were, so they could. I'll admit there could be genetic implications from the humane of radiation poisoning. Well, I think for a species to survive in an area like Chinnobyl, where we can't and we are like our almost peak in evolution. We've come so far we've come from and we can't serve up, we can't survive in that environment. So I think for wolves to be able to, they are brik they were breeding in there, they were hunting in there. I think that's just an incredible statement. It is really incredible how they've just a manage to adapt to such hazardous location. Yeah, that makes a massive statement on because of a lot of species like your your sort water crocodile mats, have survived through their environment. Yeah, have a natural disaster like that occurred, that was caused by us, and then to still survive through that, I think is is incredible. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's not really natural disaster, it's a probably more than my made disaster, which, yeah, yeah, some aspects could be worse, exactly. I've still managed to rise up to the challenge and survive and thrive there. Yeah, exactly. Just say all so particularly resilient to changes in environment. Absolutely. I think the the yellowstone case study has has that for it. Even though they had plentiful food, you know, they still had to struggle to get that, to get used to that environment. You know, they come from. Yeah, I think it was Siberia. They bought these wolves from. So the temperature was different, climb it was different there. And when you move a wolf from from a place where it had a pack, it news the area knows where the food is, and then you're just dropping it in this mountain. And they still did it. These druid this druid pack, built a massive pack and then another pack that has just, you know, probably from Omega's being kicked out, which Amoga is barely survived, has now overtaken that pack, which is even better. It's like, iem wow, yeah, and they're thereing now, that many packs on yellowstone. It's incredible. They're all over America now because of it. Okay, right, so we've got two particularly strong arguments China. How do as that? The sharks. Okay, it's sorry. Yeah, sorry, I can't say that to particularly strong argumates. How does ever sharks stand up in this context? So, obviously most people, if you've been from an aquarium, the likelihood is you would have seen a Zever Shart. So basically these guys are mostly nocturnal forages, so during the day they're quite lethargic and lazy. So they're also Benflick, which means they live on the bottom like their bottom dwellers. So throughout the day they're kind of just cruising, being quite lazy sleepy. But then their actual body shape even not many sharks actually eat sleep, as it were. They're obviously not sleeping that they're resting. So until years ago people thought that...

...sharks had to constantly move to stay alive and Zever, sharks actually have particularly reinforced skills where they are able to lay on the floor and their gills almost double pumping away so that they constantly have the rush of water over the Gills to provide them with the oxygen they need to survive. So they've got reinforced air ways, which is incredible for obviously such an animal to change the way it breathes in a way. But then their body shaped as well. So if you've not seen as ever shark, they their tail. They usually have two sections to it, so they've got an upper section and a lower section. Now several sharks have an extremely elongated top section of their tail, while the bottom load of the tail is very minimal and sometimes almost appears that it's not there. So that's because these guys are actually incredibly flexible. So basically they've sacrificed the speed. So Mako sharks and things like that have tails that almost look symmetrical in the fact that they're equal sizes, whereas Zebra sharks obviously don't have that, and that's because they've sacrifice their speed for their maneuverability to be able to efficiently move their bodies to fit situations. So obviously they tend to live around coral reefs and things like that. So they will quite often feed in crevices and often have to fit into very small type gaps to obviously escape things and swim around us is such more food. So these guys are incredibly flexible and the fact that they change such a crucial part because obviously the tail or, the cord or fins, the detail is really what provides the most propulsion in the Sharkock, and so for them to change that over however many years, if it being the same, it's actually very different to the common types of sharks we've seen. So the fact that they change their main method of propulsion. They've changed their breathing, their breathing like really enforceable, yeah, mechanism and reinforcement at the words I was looking for, and the fact they've done that and they heavily rely on electro resection. So sharks, such as nurse sharks, to carpet sharp and wobegons and things like that, often have barballs or whiskers at the front of their rounded snouts, which allows them to detect electrical currents of basically anything that's around them. So these guys rely heavily on their electro reception. Now, land animals do not have this because of the see, they don't they don't have the medium for the electro signals to travel. So land animals have air, whereas obviously the quantic animals have the water, which is much thicker, as much againser, so the electrical currents can pass through easier, which is just amazing. For these guys to be able to rely so heavily on a sense that not many animals actually have, but to then change their entire body shape and they're reinfortant of breathing is like three of the main aspects of life really in general survival schools. Okay, so I'm just going to cut in that. The next thing I would like to ask you about the social interruptions between your chosen animals. Can you explain to us about social interactions and behaviors between individuals and what makes social behaviors in your animals so interesting to you. Like. Okay, so with crocodiles especially, so will crocodiles. They're more solitary animals. They prefer to be on the Rowan, but they, if the other do become into a situation where they do require to communicate and socialize other individuals, such as a male with a female, they actually communicate it by a variety of different sounds. So crocodiles and alligators are like. have been known to bark, his CHIRP and growl each of us in a form of their own little communication, and each sounds. What was the probably mean to them different things, and the majority do the the socializing is when they're basking or feeding. I could mentioned before. Salt is are more territorial and they're very less tolerant of the our own kind and they have a large range of a territory which they will share with small females, but if a male would come into their territory it will usually end in a fight and should. There's various other species of cocks what I've been seen hunting together. I'm a couple of little they're observations what I've been indicated of doing this. They're shown to be in a Special Club of hunters with twenty or more of an animal species, and this little club is known for using sophisticated coordination and assuming different roles depending on individual abilities. So one thing they would do is they would get a bunch of smaller crocodiles to sit at one end of a bank, like a shallower bank, and so I think some alligators will do this and they'll be the large individuals what are good deeper down and push deep water fish up the river which the smaller ones were then block for them to escape, and then they would feed on these bigger fish. Another one would be is they would circle a showler fish, tie in and and tighten in the circle to make a Bait Ball, essentially, and then the crocodiles would zoom passed through the circle, snap your not fish individual, one at a time. So they've been shown to help...

...each other in scenario such as this, and there's even been a case with saltwater crocodiles where it was observed that a saltwater CROC chased a pig into an ambush with two of the salties waiting by. So not only is it seen in just these smaller, most social species, it seemed quite a bit in the bigger ones and more scary ones as well. But, however, the not really a very they're not really a very social animal themselves. Sort he's the usually stick to the self. Okay, fans, you want to talk about yeah, I'll try. I'll try anial tractions. Yeah. So I think packs are probably the main social behavior that people know about. When it comes to walls, the built from the Alpha. So you have the Alpha, which is the male, and then the met, the female Alpha. You can have Batas, depending on the size of the pack. That's like the second in command, have the rest of the pack, and then you have the Amagas, which is the lowest than the fact packs basically don't because they allowed for more territory, more food. I think when you have packs like the druids that are both thirty, I just don't think anybody is want going to want to mess with them. Just saying that. So structure, but structure allows communication and education and transfer now knowledge across the generations of the packs. The best way I found to describe it is like tribes of Native Americans like we still understand them now because it's been passed off so long. That's that's how you'd look at Wolf Packs. Okay, we've also got hierarchy of packs as well that. So that's formed from social bonding when in a pack. So you don't just have the Alpha and the Alpha female, it's all all the wolves that form the social bonding. But you can get Omegas and they're done for a number of reasons. It can be the males challenge in the Alpha and losing. It can be a weak wolf in the pack, it can be a runt in the litter. It can be a wolf that's accepted into the pack but not gain the respect to the alpha. So that happens when it's mainten season and the females have accepted the male coming in. What the Alpha male has not any just has to live with it and he pretty much just bullies this this other male either until he submits, leaves or or that he somehow gains the respect. So you've got that rank order that I spoke about earlier. That's maintained through a series of ritualized fights and posturing as well, like ritual bluffing so wolves prefer psychological warfare more than physical because it drains to them for the actual hunt. So they'd rather just snarl at each other, bark and just kind of make themselves look big rather than an actual fight. Body posture as well. That's a way of interaction and communication among wolves. So you've probably seen a glimpse of it in your dogs at home. So dominant Wolf stands with its stiff legs and stiff tail, pushes the chest out and they have this really penetrating stare as well. So that's an example of like a menacing way to describe the body postures things that. Sorry, I've just got one more as well. So the w was the wolf how as well. That's definitely a way for social interaction with waters. Everybody knows about the wolf. Hole's massive part of their social interaction and behavior. It's everything for wolves. It's their pinpoint for each other location. It's calling to battle, its victory, but it does allow other wolves to hear it. That is the only problem where it own. I just want to client fight. Wolves don't Howl at the Moon O gate. That is a myth. How they howl at the twilight hours and they point upwards so that it can travel in the wind more. That's why wolves how that way like a whole life within a line, and yeah, that's how I felt. I just want to say as well, mammals have, I think, actually a slight advantage on these other animals that you guys have got, and that's facial expressions. So they can indicate dominant behavior by bearing teeth, or they can be submissive, which is where the face like almost droops. Imagine that sort of thing goes and tie with their psychological warfare type. Yeah, but the challenge each other. Yeah, also when mating as well. That's another one. So the Alpha more than likely be like their father or their grandfather, and packs don't want him to read it. So females in the pack or small at the Alpha bite him everything. The Alpha will become almost submissive during mating season because of this. It's clear that walls of very social. Are they quite vocal with each other, then all the more physical when it comes to interactions with each other? Definitely more vocal. Okay, yeah, they'll only be physical with rival packs. That's when things become physical, or pray anything like that. That's when wolves become firstical, but no, not, not in between the packs. They are more than likely they weren't like that. Okay, yeah, but that's me. You done so, Chiet, if you want to carry on for yours. And Yeah, so...

...there's ever, sharks are actually a lot more social than people think. So when it comes to being with each other, they're similar to the saltwater crocodiles Max they're they tend to be solitary. And, however, groups of twenty to fifty individuals have been recorded, and this is made of mostly mature adults, from what we can gather and estimate, obviously, the difficulties of tracking such mobile animals. So the exact reason for these groups are very unclear. However, with the females outnumbering the males approximately three two one, we do think that it is precopulatory, which is basically the behavior that is exhibited just before mating. So we do believe that they have this social interruption. However, obviously, with them being obviously so mobile and things like that, it is quite difficult to record this exactly. So most of the research of that's been done and it has been done in aquariums, which brings me to my favorite part about separate sharks. A Z ever sharks are the friendliest shark possible. So if you were to ever go scuba diving and you were to see a sharp you would more than likely want it to be these guys, because these guys are insanely social with humans. So at my first experience at an aquarium there was a zever shark called nudge. He is my best friend. I mentioned him in the first episode of the podcast and he actually recognizes the scuba divers. So we have two of the scuba divers that go in and there's one male and one female and scuba divers and nudge acts differently between he does to the female and the male. So when the male scuba diver goes in, he's very kind of typical teenage boy. He's almost like a puppy. He's very playful. He often swims up to you and he will nudge you, hence his name. He head Butts Him, he tends to almost dance with him. So when the scuba divers are stood vertically, nudge will come along and every move that the scuba diver makes, nudge will actually mimic it. And this is someone I've seen in other Z ever sharks as well. So the choose ever sharks we have at my job at the deep they both do this as well. They react differently to each of the scuba divers and they recognize them and they change their body behavior based on which scuba diver they're interacting with. So they're insanely intelligent for something like that, which obviously fish cognition is something that a lot of people aren't very familiar with when it comes to their intelligence in general. Yeah, I was quite surprised about that because I actually found to be quite similar with salties as well, and there was this one of who was called, I believe it was, a low long and he was a twenty four quite saltwater crocodile with the court and they brought him into captivity and despite his massive size, he became a gentle giant. Yeah, and a lot of crocodiles and captivity, especially Salties, they will recognize keepers faces and there's even been times a where it's like that they will permit the keeper to pet them. And that is that same with like Zeba sharks like like them interact with them, or is it more just like like a playful thing? They want to come and have a look and Magee. It's can I just give a quick disclaim it. Do not try and hug or talk to any of these a holes in the wild. No, no, it's especially not wolves or crocodiles, not even zebra sharks. These are trained, captive animals. Don't want any of our listeners going out into a wild and attempt to watch China does to server shore actions. These animals are still dangerous. Okay, with Max's question, one of the ZEP shocks that worked does this really cute thing where he will swim up to the Scuba diuivers. So obviously, because they are ropotic, the divers have to have full face masks so you can't actually see their exact places when they're underwater. So it's a little bit different SPA salties because it's kind of harder to recognize who's who because obviously they all look the same with the same diving dome thing. So it's just that little bit of extra recognition that I think it's slightly different. But these guys are just amazing. So Tomoh, who is my favorite fellow and he tends to swim up to the scuba divers and he will actually lay on their head which obviously isn't great why you're trying to feed animals and things, but he will lay on their heads and then he will swim up in front of you and nudge you and then roll over onto his back. So also he actually asks for belly rubs, almost like a puppy. So that's quite amazing. Like I've never seen an animal do that before, which I think is just brilliant. And he asks for head rubs and things like that. So it's definitely what Max was saying about them, you know, recognizing people and being very interactive and almost on their terms. Basically. Yeah, I wunt twasticquifully when I went to the deep acroper years, like...

I saw one of the dire shows and the separate sharks were acting very friendly of one of the divers. Yeah, but I believe someone can said in that show the reason they were full pose masks is because one of the supper sharks will rip the mask off. Yet that's Tomo. He is very mischievous, so he will. Previously, when they had regular scuba masks, he will actually nudge the strap off and he will literally get it off your head because he thinks it's a form of playtime. So Cure. A lot of the behavioral issues and research and things is about whether or not animals to exhibit play traits and things like that. And obviously, Zebra Sharks, I believe you, which is the area, Wright, I want to go into. They very much exhibit playful behavior, especially with things like the mask, you' saying, belly rubs, head rubs, things like that. So they definitely like under water dog, aren't they? They are. I described them as the laborators of the ocean. They really yeah, yeah, that makes more sense that. Like you've been talking about your animals displaying friendly traits. Give them that. Each of your animals just like stigmatized in some way. How would you argue that they are actually got for mine? I think people, because they people have dogs in their home. I think people really think wolves have this nice kind of friendly nature. They don't. Okay, there are plenty of stories of hunters being almost heard apart by our wolves. Okay, wolves and very, very dangerous. I can't stress this in all okay, wells are so dangerous. Don't go near Wolves, don't interact with wolves, don't let your dog off the leash near Wolves. Yes, yeah, now for how long they've been around on their own. They're now built into Mother Nature and with that wild side. Okay, so they are not these friendly loving animal. They're not a French bulldog. Okay, is it this? You know? You now you next do neible. This so far descendant from that kind of dog. Okay. So please do not dry to cut all wolves or interact with wolves. Okay. How would you work to do stigmatize worlds? Well, I think brutal honesty is the only way to go. I think people need to see the brutality of power acts of a wolf. I think they need to see wolves fighting among each other. I think they see wolves taking packs down, because a lot of the documentary show when wolves fail or when help get away, it's a good thing because the elk have lived. That's that's usually not what happens. Most of the time. I just start a stupid yeah, and WHO's will go? Wolves will go for the young and the week. There is nothing more evil than that. Okay. I mean what you said earlier as well is that they're depicting in Norse fology on, they usually depicted as something evil, innos like whirior dogs, aren't they? Theyre the Wolf Fenria is the bringer of the end of the world in North millage mythology, and so a skull and Haiti. I think I had something on Vikings. If you just want to go through a note quick Vikings wore wolf skins and drank wolf blood to take in the spirit of Wolf into battle. That's how dangerous they thought they were. Okay, that's why they should be left alone. The grim brother, the grim brother story of Little Red Riding Cord, little red riding good gets eaten. Okay, that's how it really ended. Okay, it wasn't her grandmother, Little Redder, I a little child, got eating in the brother's grim story. That is how horrible wolves are. So kids, if you want it's so kids. If you want a dog, don't get the gray wolf, get the Channe. Stop asking for waters pets. Okay, they're not pets. There's a go. I've gone back to fender. That's always been the sticker and will. I believe he got chained up. Didn't? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how. There's this stigma. Is really got that probably from the bigger domestication of wolfs of dog's book. Yeah, fenry was trained up because he was so dangerous. Does hatee how them all? Moon? No, but the thing is you do make a very valid point. You did go off in a tangent about how dangerous they are, but they are. You can't domesticate a wolf. I just say it's wow as a pretty violent yeah, I mean if a wolf had discover between the Chihuahua, I think we all know what would to win that Chua. That's you all. I tell you. Beverly Hills is a dangerous place down you know, you do make a very strong point, and brutal honesty is the way to go about that. I don't ye through it is true. The only way is but I think we can move on now. I think I've done my but well, obviously sharks have such a stigmare about them, like it's one of my main goals is to help eliminate the stigma because, like I've just...

...explained, yes, the Zebra sharks are shocks, but at the end of the day they are not the mindless killing machines that they depicted in the media. So really, by using examples specifically like the Z ever shark to explain how their cognition and their behavior and you know, their their general personality is a lot more complex than the stigma gives them predate for really. So the only reason that I obviously don't go out and, you know, hug a shark because obviously it's not going to end well. But if you want to help alleviate the stigma or sharks, I think it is best to start with the friendlier species like the Z ever shark, to explain about, you know, their general demeanor and their general personality and the fact that we really need to study this to help get rid of things like stignais in around animals. Yeah, I agree with you on the shark one, especially with that because imagine there's not really much to say for there, Zeb Jarre, that Z ever shark itself, as an individual, but in it sharks in the broad aspect. Yeah, there's a lot of stigma to it. I mean look at the movie jaws. That raised basically hell for sharks in the media. That showed them that their blood first to killing machines. Yeah, I think you've got like a reverse case of what I had. So, yeah, it's very opposite. Wolves have a very positive stigma that we're trying to eliminate and to get back to a more realistic perspective. Yeah, sharks, we're doing the opposite by getting rid of the negativity. Yeah, replacing it with yes, it's still real because at the end of the day, they are sharks and they are very different from us, so should not be messed with. Is that at the same time, they are also positive and they also things of wonder and amazement at the fact that, basically, a fish is capable of so much more than we realize. Yeah, crocodiles are very, very territorial and aggressive animals, especially the salty, but it's because of that it needs to be respected, it needs to know it boundaries, whilst also still respecting it and shedding light on the fact that it is, yeah, an animal that we should cherish and learn about and understand. I think, Max, you have like a conservation based case for us. The stigma. Yeah, because there's obviously we are a lot of crocodile hunting are yeah, they also there's also an underestimation of the their danger. So I think people need to respect like chaniser, they need to be respected and understorey. Yeah, they was becut due to this reason. I believe it was back in the S S are laugh double check that salt or crocodiles were almost driven to extension due to human hunting because they were seen to be dangerous animals and there were seen to be an amazing trophy for hunters to collect. And also, yeah, because of the film jaws that you mentioned earlier. Their actual jaws are ripped from their skulls and literally plated in Golden Timeish trophies. And because of the film jaws there was that much of a massacre. The great whites been any driven to extinction as well. So it yeah, that's a lot of top predators. Yeah, it is very important for the public and the medley media alike to understand, respect and learn about these animals. Are Not just these animals, all of I think we should get back to the debate now, because I think we've got but too friendly with each other. Yeah, well, okay, the next top it you've touched on it already, but hunting and feeding. So I'd like you to debate the advantages and disadvantages of your chosen animals counting and feeding behavior. Okay, so, so, yeah, as I mentioned earlier, crocodiles that opportunistic and ambush pudders. They will look beneath the surface of the water, with just the eyes, e's nostrils poking out, scan in the area, what in the water's edge, and with they're very dark coloration and then a thick, hidy plate underneath the water, they look practically visible to whatever praise going to come across. And then what they would do? They will sit near the water's edge and they will wait for the right moment and as soon as that right moment comes out, they will use their powerhouse of a tail to lift them out of the ward blink of IE, wrap their jaws around their prey and then drag them into the water to drown them. It's a very brutal, brutal way of of catching and killing prey. But they will really anything from water bufflow to bore to like too large crabs and fish. It's even their own kind, and we sat all crocodiles there. We even known for hunting sharks China, and they've got not just a powerhouse of the tail, they have monster jaws...

...with five inch long conical teeth all the way around down their jaws, and a male will have an average of sixty six when it's fully grown. And these jaws are designed for clamping and piercing at the same time, so there's no way for them to get for basically, once you're in, you can't get out. And with these as well, we all know the infamous death or what crocodiles do. So when they grab their prey, the drag them into the water and if it's a large prey for them to consume, what they'll do the spin. They the spin their body around with the prey and mouth as well. It's called the death ral and is designed to throw their to throw large prey off balance so it can be dragged under the surface easier as well for its drown and because these animals also nocturnal, the hunt a lot at night. So not only does the dark, murky water cover them, cover their body, but it's even harder to see at night as well, and you've only just got two little eyes poking out the water surface. And what they what they have as well, is when they're, say, if they're not hunting big prey water's edge, when they're sitting up the bottom of the river or the what the lake, they'll hold their mouth open under the water with that valve blocking them and prevented them from drowning. And they've got sensitive pressure receptors in the pits in the scales around their mouth to detect motion. So as something swims along the detective the slam shut. And sorryn some disadvantages, some since they're very ambush and opportunistic. Sometimes the opportunity is not going to come along and is very rare and opportunity would be the wabeflow note of the crocodile. There the whole herds going to go before as a chance to catch its meal, and it could be days, a week, so even a month or so before and next meal will come along. And when they've grown to about seventeen to twenty three foot long, the probably not going to get enough sustenance of feeding off crabs, small crocs and fish as well. They're going to want look for that bigger prey like a ball or water buffalo, and if they can't catch that because they've messed up the time in or the judge of the distance or anything with this plan of attack, they're not going to get a meal at all again. And so for mine hunting and feeding, everyone knows that wolf hunting larger and novels down themselves for prey, but they also can feed on the kind of like on nimbles. In a way. They're scavengers, so they'll feed on berries, even reptiles if they have to. Put the the main food is stuff like dear Moose, has, Caribou, Bison, goat, stuff like that. Just the usually require our average three point seven pounds of meat per day. That's just for like minimum minimum maintenance. Live like a feast or famine lifestyle. So they'll go several days without a meal and then gorge on over twenty pounds of meat when a killer may it made. So, but this will vary. So in the middle of the winter they'll gorge on even more because it's tough conditions, and then in the summer they won't need to gorge as much less you're a female given birth to young. For the actual hunt, also have to get their pro running, you know, in order to take it down. If an elk or a ball stands at ground, the can be dangerous. So if the prey is moving, it's not focused on the fight mode, you know, the fight or flight mode. Yeah, they're not focused on our fight mode. If they're running, their focused on the fly pot of it. It's also easier for wolves to select their prey if they're on the move. So they need to get them in the open as well, because there's less cover like forestry can provide camouflage and protection. So what they'll either do is the will the chase them out into the open, all the circle them chasing. But when they're chasing the wolves have the fittest fittest wolf run closer to the pack, to the herd rather, and then as that wolf tires out, another one it will take its place, and then it so they'll alter so as one wolf one will falls, the next one will take its place, and that's how they're so efficient in hunting packs. When it comes to capturing the prey, the LAIME for the rear or the snout of the animal, because it's actually where they're at least vulnerable. So the snout is away from antl's or horns and the roll is away from hamstrings, which is where they can kick out. Walls are actually a risk adverse so that means they'll have to keep a safe distance if they can, leaving other members of the pack to do the dangerous work in close getting closer to getting closer to prey. Sorry, a lot of factors though, can affect wolves getting prey. So availability of the prey profitability. So how is it? The risk reward ratio, if you get what I mean, of getting the prey and the degree of habitat overlap. So you've got to remember walls are in territory. So they can't overstep that territory for prey because they'll just get mangled by the next by the the rival pack, and then they've got fire on their hands. Meanwhile they're looking for food. So they have to be very careful in that sense. But they'll. Wolves do go for areas with less travel, even if there's less prey. So that was that was a...

...study done that and they found they travel for an area with a eightecent less elk if it was an easier travel and they also go for stuff like valleys and stuff like that's or if they're running downhill rather than uphill, it's a lot easier. So that yeah, so essentially they take an easier route, not eggs at as much energy for the hunt itself. Yeah then, yeah, okay, so I feel that works more for was if, like a wolf is squaring up a big l a wolf could put itself in a lot of risk. Yeah, so the having to go a different way to exert as much energy would obviously be useful and also, I imagine, putting impacts. Not Does it only provide an advantage of the Hunda by I imagine, also provides a protective advantage for the whole group as well. Yeah, exactly. It's like very tactical in the way they hunt rather than like you're just like, what's some water crocodiles? It's more brutal. Yeah, and straightforward, whereas with whereas wolves have to be very, very tactical because of the damage to their break can do to them. yeahually, an individual wharf and individual will absolutely get killed by elk reindeer and it bores. Anything like that absolutely happened. Yea. So I'm trying to what would you say the separate sharks, because its advantages and disadvantages of freedom, Pere, if you are so, separate sharks are obviously benefic feeders, which means they feed along the bottom of the sea floor. Now, with the mention about their maneuverability earlier, which obviously is how flexible they are, they tend to feed on small fish, urchins, crabs and small birthebrays which obviously most of the time live in crevices and small areas of rock. So obviously, with them sacrificing their speed for their maneuverability, it allows them greater movement to actually get themselves in and out of small crevices to hunt for their food. So, unlike great white sharks, which are ambush predators, zebra sharp are generally actively searching and then they will kind of just go for their food, whereas great white shark have a very specific manner which they will attack. So they always have, you know, an approach. They have general investigation, which is the circling that you usually see. Zebra sharks don't really have any of that. So they're a little bit different to their more common predatorial sharks that we see. These guys obviously have a lot shorter of a snout and their mouths obviously a lot smaller and their primary method of feeding is by suction. So it's kind of a combination of suction and like chewing, basically. So they eat open themounts in expansion and then obviously the food opening their mouths releases pressure that pushes the food inward. So by them pushing the food inward, they then have teeth that's very similar to raise, so they have kind of cusps teeth rather than the typical sperrated shark teeth, which is what you see in great whites and things like that. So when it comes to hunting and feeding, these guys are a lot more relaxed, I'd say. Obviously, they still have to actively search and find their praying crevices and things like that. They still have the same kind of neurological pathway where it's, you know, will I be able to get this general hunting thoughts? However, they're not as predatorial as other sharks, so they are slightly different in their hunting and feeding techniques. Would I got would, because ever, sharks be caught like hunting with each other because, yeah, I know, solitary. Yeah, they are primarily solid. Sorry, obviously, because we don't know that much about them. The only time that they have been seen in groups is when it comes to mating and obviously, you know, feeding during mating seasons obviously going to be a lot more frequent because of you know, cutting on the body mass and you know, mate choice and things like that. So that's probably the only time that they're seen. However, they they're not like wolves. They don't kind of heard or their prey like wolves do. Similar with what you said earlier about the salties being seen to kind of manipulate their prey, they're not. They sort of do, because they kind of get them into critcism things they can get them. However, they're not like they don't do it to the same extent as what wolves and salties and things do. So they do primarily hunt solely on their own. Well, as you said, the not really the big apitch prayer to are these zebra sharks, the they just saw set at the bottom soak up the food? I guess a they can take life a bit easier than they they definitely are, but it's more their actual behavior that is the important bit is the fact that, yes, they are, you know, not the Apex Predator as it would be. They're not the same level of Predator as wolves or crocodiles, but their behavior is no different. They just apply it a different scale, which to me is fascinating, because if the shark isn't an Apex Predator, why does it need to, a apply the same mechanisms, but on a smaller scale. So...

...the fact that they can apply all of this to themselves without tech technically needing it is just incredibly fascinating really. Yeah, also, compared the other two, they this completely different form of feeding as well. It doesn't have to exist. It is a very simplified mechanism. However, it is still the same theory behind all hunting and feeding, like it's the same kind of process, just with the steps are almost more combined, which makes it seem like there's less steps when there actually isn't. Yeah, trying just because obviously yours feeds in a different, different way to mine. Maxes, I'm not going to break the rules here. I'm not going to do like a one one thing, but do you think it's evolutionary advantageous to be that kind of ambush hunter or that, or what was it called? Sorry, no, it's almost like active search, like it is still sort of ambushed, but it's not the same level of ambush that you don't have the sharks, or would you? Because that's that they've changed their body type to match the environment. So the term that I described it in in my blog is lifestyle dependency. So you've probably heard mentioned it before, but basically the lifestyle they leave is what their body shape and their morphology is dependent on so because they are nic animals, their body has had to adapt and alter itself to fit the benefic environment to be able to survive and thrive. So from an evolutionary perspective, that's one of the biggest things, is that they have changed their sims. So although they are kind of the lazier shot, they have had to do that to fit the environment. So it's not just they're not just like lazy, they don't just sleep around. They've had to go over millions and millions of years of changing the typical sharp way to fit their environment. Yeah, because because I imagine hunting for prey and that kind of crevice environment is is very difficult. They've not got to do as much of they've not got as much energy expenditure in actually getting the prey to them. So yes, ever starts things utilize the crevices. So they do sort of a similar thing. They kind of heard it into the area but once they got it there, the energy used compared to the energy of a wolf used to actually take the prey down is a lot smaller. So that's really the only major difference between them. Yeah, okay, fair enough. Okay, so I'm showing me up on yeah, nothing, we'd on halfway through our quash. She's now so I just going to take a quick breath up. You can use a sand to reflect on any previous questions and I don't know anything you want to say. I have something what I thought was quite interesting. This goes back so how they survive and adapting their environment. So one thing what crocodiles have adapted and affected in my eyes, is their heart is a lot different to other reptiles were. So in normal reptiles you would have oxygen oxidated blood, mixed of Deoxiard blood and putting crocs them too are not mixed or and instead they go through a process of trolling through both the Atria and the bowfinch cause separately. So and there's a connection between the arterial and the Venus. I've probably saying that wrong. Circulation by a small opening called the forming of Panazea Panaza, so this opens between two vessels lying separate from the ventricles, and basically this allows the Crock to hold its breath under water, so they can stay submerge longer and the blood will bypass the lung while it's submerge and it will just and basically has an effect of stabilizing the bloodock she levens for other body as it's holding its breath for such a long period of time. And Yeah, I thought that I was really cool of how they've managed to do that over time. I've got some cool facts about the water I didn't get a chance to mention, and I don't think our well incredibly good. They can smell animals from more than a mile away. Everyone knows that dogs can swim. Wolves can too, but wolves can swim eight miles here, mile, eight miles yet because they have any small webs in their how so, in between their toes they have these little webs. You know, I said, with the snow shoe effect walking through the snow. That comes into play when they're swimming as well. Wow, okay, that's for eight miles. That it's not it's mental and that is insane. Oh No, wait, their weight, because everybody disputes this. Wolves are not two hundred pounds. Okay, then maybe you might get a beast of a Canadian Wolf. Okay, I might be the odd chance that there will be an absolute monster of a war for in Canada. That's the only time on average, and then normally between forty a hundred seventy five pounds. So they're still hundred pound wolf. Imagine, imagine, imagine the size that. Imagine what that could do. Have you got any interesting onees you've missed yet? China for yours, ever, shock obviously, talking about earlier about the so social behavior when it comes to their when I mentioned personalities, and I didn't really go further on...

...from that, but a lot of people don't associate animals with having personalities. You might do with a dog or account or a domestic animal, but obviously people try not to and pro promorphis, which basingly needs to humanize Bild animals. Now in aquarium settings and things, it's better to not do this to avoid attachments and things like that. But to me in a conservation sense of trying to conserve species, because obviously several sharks classes endangered. So when it comes to conserving the species, if we explain to people about the fact they have personalities and you know, about their individuality and things, it does kind of give people a sense of oh well, it's not just a wild animal, as it kind of gives them something more than just the typical Oh, it's just a shot, which for me is one of the main important things of talking about an animal, especially if you're trying to convince people by it's an important thing to look after and concern is because if you tackle it from a humanized perspective, we automatically associate more emotion and more feelings with the wild animals than we would do through the newspaper that says that it's a wild man eating thing. Mention about personalities earlier. I think it's just a little bit more important that I mentioned that because of the fact that not many people believe that animals have their personalities and things, but I am a strong believer in that. You understand animal, you have to know the animal itself, like you just need to Oh yeah, definitely, I definitely agree with that. andnother think I've got for my cocky boys. Right, this is going. This is going way back to prehistoric times, which you know me is my forte, and crocodiles ruled and they also filled a lot of different niches as well and they went for a lot of different adaptations. For example, one of them is a group called, I think it's the Planier plano credits. So I think I've said that wrong, but it's around that. But basically these were crocodiles or Crocodilians what were better at living on land and in water and they would have longer legs. They sometimes had a bit of body armor as well. Some would have blunt clause which would also resemble hooves. So essentially, these Crocodilians had hooves and would sprint. And then one of my most favorite animals of our time is the cat prosucus, which is imagine another land crocodile with the long legs, but it's more like a big cat and a crocodile mix together. So it's a crocodile with all the crocodiling features, but with longer legs, bigger claws and could run like a cat. They were incredible. All the different adaptations and things what crocodiles have gone through for out the hit, the dawn of time and everything all they'll life. It's just it blows my mind every time I think about it. I absolutely love them. I think is amazing. I think I've gone through so much for their course of time and evolution. Yes, this is it's incredible. Okay, yeah, right, yeah, that was really interesting. was since what you'll had to say. Hey, right, moving back onto the questions reproduction and reproductor strategies, both very important and ensure in the survival of the species. What can you tell us about your chosen animal that makes it so interesting in this factor? So with crocodiles, they, like I said before, the very saltiers, a very territorial and a male will really only share its territory with female, with other females, obviously for the purpose of mating with them. So, when it comes to reproduction, females can lay egg nests what would hold up to fifty eggs, and the female itself would actually watch over the the nest and till it hatches. There is a bit of parental care when it comes to reptile when it comes to these crocodiles. Sometimes reptiles of this left to live on their own devices, such as turtles and so and I. One thing they do as well is, once the little atchins have hatched, the female would carry the the actions in their jaws to nearby water to ensure survival even further. And then we'll also continue to watch over them for another several months and then eventually, once the big enough, the hatchings will go off on their own and start to live on their own. But sometimes, if the female is attacked by another crocodile during the carrying of their babies or whatever, or if another scenario plays out where the babies are left from the own a bit too younger, that's fine because a lot of the baby actions will have the instincts to survive, hunt for food hide away from predators instantly once they've been born. He's like dress, like programmed into their mind already. And one cool finger I found out as well is that the temperature of nest will actually predict sex of the babies. So if it's...

...a cooler temperature, you'll produce majority females, while males would be to produce a higher temperature. Wha Thought is pretty cool. I'm actually quite surprised by the the amount of parent took care that crocodiles have. I didn't think that was the thing. A thought they were like mother rats that just leave the nest and just like yeah, I really thought as well, but now it turns out that the females actually putting a lot of dedication to ensure survival of these crocs it's and especially with other reptiles such as I mention as turtles. Yeah, with crocodiles it seems to be different. I wasn't expecting that, though. New Packs are formed by bursting wolves that pair and then produce their young. So breeding is strictly seasonal, with increasing in territory or scenting markings, so by the dominant male and interestosterone in the all male adult males, all I don't pack me members, even males, God, and play around with pop. So both sexes will have this parental kind of care. Like packs get very excited when put when new POPs arrived. So data shown from studies that in the wild there's usually rule the only one female within the pack will reproduce, and so when another female reproduces, that's how new packs will form, because the other female will be kicked out and it will depend on the rank order of the female which one is, you know, left. So female suppression is definitely something that happens in in wolf packs and breeding. So at Birth Wolves Wolf pops way about one pound and they're really dark, for the death the blind, they have little or no sense of smell and the can't rate regulate their own body heats for the safety they born in a den. Pregnant females usually dig the duns themselves when they know they're pregnant, often as early as three weeks before the POPs are born. They prefer their densites to be located on elevated areas near water so it's easier access for her. The usual these hill yes, what to say? I would just say so it seems like there's a the pack saw. Everyone helps to get the a the coming of the new POPs. And Yeah, and sure, but that's for the that's for the female that's given birth within the pack. If a yeah, email has she won't get nearly as much reward, almost or protection. Okay, but the female will go away from the pack to protect her clubs, like they become her main privacy rather than pack. So she'll stay with the den. She'll forage for her basic needs socially. That's that's when the examples come on in of eating berries and smaller animals, because once she's given birth, she only needs to really she doesn't need those big bits of meat anymore because she what she will have done is gorged on a massive meal while she was pregnant, and then it's just more about the scavenging and protect and actually protecting the lives of the court clubs. Males actually show high frequency of intersexual aggression during mating season. So males will intervene in sexual contacts which their own preferred female is involved, whereas the intertolerance of the Alpha female was more general. From you're saying. So, is it true that a pack could or so adopt other pups if pups will not have their own pack of mother? Yeah, that definitely happens. Okay, that's quite cool. Then, so they're like parental care. Also stretch out to other pups, not essentially from their pack, who are in need of the hell, it's partly that, but it's also more survival, because I spoke about the genetic and breeding. A pack which is definitely a fir, like said, the ALB the females will fight off the Alpha to prevent this. But if there's an opportunity to bring new blood in and it's your yeah, that is like the perfect scenario because it's a survival advantage, increases the size of the pack, it's new POPs to play with and it's a different genetic pool. Yeah, so it's a wind. There's no downside that. It usually happens when the mother of the pack, of the cubs rather, have died, and then the pack that comes across the clubs will take that long. I was just about to say one thing. Is there any sort of like meeting ritual? What the walls will go through? Because for saltwater crocodiles they do during the wet season in Australia, which is from November, two marches when they're breeding seasons, and a lot of time they would rub their heads and bodies together before they meet in the water. That's too that's basically they're like meeting rich or to show but that they're both ready to meet and reproduce offspring. Says there anything like that in the wolves? I'm not sure anything physical contact like that, but females and males will leave their packs to go out and find a mate, and that's definitely something that will happen. And then it's a like almost a plaything, plaything that they'll do and to see whether the male or female will want to make with each other. So there's one case in yellowstone with a wolf called the castle over where he wasn't in the pack, but the road that the pack was near, the pack wouldn't go on because so many wolves have been killed from cars and trucks and stuff like that. This wolten didn't know that. So what it would do is it would go across the road, mate with the female, become playful with it,...

...multiple females and the packs so and then as the Alpha started tasting, it just crossed the road and it would be like a force field. And so that's that's probably the only case of rituals that I can think of. Okay, and every thing just I've got one more question for you. Do wolve, the Wolf Pairs Mate for life? Yeah, they do. Yeah, so that's why you have the main Alpha male and Alpha female. What about you, China, then, when it comes to reproduction, forever sharks? So this is the question I was most looking forward to because, has ever, sharks are primarily all the press, which means they mostly have eggs. So the eggs themselves are about seventeen centimeters long and about five centimeters thick. So when you think about it, they are pretty thick. And the reason for this is because there's no parental care in several sharks. So these ever sharks will lay the eggs. Now, the eggs themselves have hair like fibers that are almost kind of it looks a bit like green sludge, and this is what attaches the eggs to the substrate. Now the eggs often look like small rocks with a little bit seaweed on them, and hence why it's the green sludge. And these tend to sit into the crevices and things. Often the female will hide them where she knows they are protected. Obviously the extra thickness helps to prevent any obstructions or issues with the embryos. So, once she has laid the eggs, the eggs can take up to about six months to hatch. This has all been recorded in aquariums, of course, because obviously there's no set timings for things like this in the wild. So all of the data that I've got in regards their reproduction is based on aquarium case studies, and so basically they hatch about six months, depending on their temperature. The newborns are about twenty to thirty six centimeters, so they're definitely quite small and obviously they have the characteristic dark and light stripes, hence the name Zebra Shark. This is really what allows them to be perfectly camouflaged. So basically they can fit into crevices, they can fit in between flora, they can basically fit in most places where you know small animals would be able to survive. Now, in aquariums, sharks tend to lay an annual cycle of about three months or so. The resident Zebra Sharks that we have at Work Lady Z, and she had four eggs in one day. So they can have quite a lot of eggs and depending on obviously their help, overall well being and things like that, it really does just depend on the individual itself. Lady Z is very popular and when it comes to having babies, she is an egg machine. She just kind of pumps them out as and whenever she's ready. But the main reason I was excited for this question is because Zebra sharks can actually do something called paths and a genesis. Now some animals can do this. It's most recorded in smaller cellular organisms, but these zebra sharks can now half noo genesis is where the female so the mother will directly copy all of her DNA and we'll actually form an egg with her DNA only, so there's no male input whatsoever and obviously when the pup is born, after you've done blood analysis and obviously full DNA check, is exactly the same as the mother. is a genetic cone and for that reason, obviously all the pups that are borne by partner Genesis are female because obviously there's no male chromosome there to, you know, kind of have a male cut. So there's only actually three species of shark that can do this. So there zever shark is one. It's been recorded in Bonnethead hammerhead sharks can actually do it as well, and then there is the white spotted bamboo shark and, similar to it, the chain cat shop. So it's mainly the smallest species that can do it. However, Zever sharks are the one where it is most recorded. The few species of bonnet heads that have been recorded to how pups by partner Genesis haven't actually survived due to genetic issues and things like that that have been passed down. However, Zever Sharks, the pups that are borne by partner Genesis can actually reach adulthood in some cases, which is why it is such an amazing thing because, when you think about it, if the sharks are struggling to find mates. So the two subpopulations that you have, a z ever sharks don't really interbreathe between them and obviously the gene poll therefore is restricted. So if the gene pool was restricted, or see the female copying her own DNA from a healthy bloodline can kind of compensate for the lack of male influence really. So I think that's one of the main reasons why these guys are so cool, is because they can literally have babies with themselves. They do not need any male and okay, so did you say they have that one? You have the aquarium had four eggs China. Yeah, she did. She had four eggs in one day. Okay. So, and you said they had no parental care. No, no parental care at all. And the genetic copies almost anyway. Some of them can be you...

...know, think that's been around the male in a couple of months. Obviously they can kind of store the metaphors in a way. So if they don't necessarily use it all straight away, they can kind of almost fun and lit when they need it really. But do you not think that's actually a disadvantage in that sense, because there so few eggs and there's no care in the wild. That's quite vulnerable, like a lot of the animals that have no parental care or little parental care, will have big broods because they want at least some of them to survive. Yet see, although obviously some of them can be clothed, they can actually have forty to eighty eggs annually. So that's the average. So they actually have a lot more eggs, and the reason they have that many eggs is because of the fact that, you know, predics, some things can happen, obviously in an aquarium stating it's a lot difference. Obviously, if they're much stronger individuals, they can have obviously more eggs and things like that. Depending on the Robeball, fitness can be a weakness to some extent. However, it's kind of balanced out by the number of eggs that they actually actually have and the fact that once they are sexually mature, they literally constantly pump out eggs like there's no kind of discrepancy between them once they've kind of just constantly a cycle of reproduction. Okay, throw enough, says showing. Yeah, yeah, all right, I seconds. Last question is once we're a bit of thoughts. You know, if you chill an excellent arguments to previous questions, but now likes fast and look different. What do you believe? It's the greatest weaknesses, I think other chosen animals. Well, the other chosen elems. Yeah, not not your own animal. Yeah, through carefullers had it set up for my own animal and I was going to be my own and everything. Then it could be swat you want to test. It's fun. Gone Bug School. It's the war that came to mind for me was with the wolves. Dwn was, you know, when they're pack hunting and then they're forced to actually engage into a fight with the prey and they're hunting big things of elk quot could easily Gore a wolf. Like you said, they they don't have. I was thinking they won't really have that much protection around other than just into other than the pack, because a crocodile, when it comes to us, a water boor flow, wants to fight back with its big horns. It still has its large plated high and it's big jaws to fight, while a wolf, yeahs my agile. It's got its is pack, but it's a bit not as tough skinned and one hit from an elk probably provide fatal blows. Yeah, okay, I see your point, but I think you're thinking of an individual or that that that point comes into play with an individual wolf. Yeah, that's why they have the two mechanisms of the chasing and the circling. So if you circle something, doesn't matter how much it stands out, there still going to be a wharf at the back of it or at the side. So it can still attack that way even if the prey is standing up. And obviously when it's running into that flight mode, Rong fight mode. So I think even though, yes, they are taken down, they are having a high risk but again, a high reward from it anyway. Yeah, yeah, I think they're dation risk massively by having such a tactical way of unting and multiple tactics. Yeah, I agree with you. It's they played more strategic and they're very more sophisticated hunters and coordination and individual abilities do come into play a lot when it comes with wolf hunting. Yeah, so I would have give you on that. Obviously, with you saying about the fact that they have so much parental care, could you say that the parental care they give limits the amount of offspring they have because obviously in tradeoffs the between parental care and offspring numbers. Obviously, if they're having to give more care into the offspring, they're therefore going to have less offspring. So would you say that because the crocodile MOMS provide so much care to they're young, that they end up having less young overall? Well, they don't provide an extreme amount of care. It's only for this the first several months of the hatch, as they do watch over the the nest, which is for a free month period is when they hatch and then they will watch over for several months. But it's not an an immense mount of parental care and they will they will lose a lot of offspring because of the area they live in there. The the babies, they baby actions are still sharing these same waters with twenty plus foot crocodiles in them as well. As you do lose a lot, but the counteract that by laying or to fifty to sixty eggs at time when it comes to the nest. So they do balance it our I do see where you're going from there. And also with the mother showing parental care, she might put herself in danger that she is still a large, sixteen...

...foot crocodile what would be able to defend for herself. So she would be exposed more to danger when it comes to trying to care for her young, but it's not such an extensive period of time in her life she has to do this. So, Dan, obviously the walls obviously have a lot of parental care as well. So could you say that that's, you know, my argument for saying that the amount of parental care kind of limits the number of offspring. Would you say that that's at all similar to walls? I would, but I think because their morals they wouldn't breed as much or they wouldn't have that many airs off springs anyway, because it's a lot more difficult of a breeding process than laying eggs. So I'm not sure if it covers the same basis of that. Yeah, and also because wolves will breed outside of their pack. So I think the parental care is needed. If that's even if the club even if the amount of clubs are small, I think because because they're breeding outside of the pack and outside of protection, I think the the amount of parental care is necessary and I still think having small numbers of wolves will still have big impact because I think, for if a mother has four wolves, she can. There are definitely cases of mothers having nine or more than that, you know, but let's say, let's say three or four, that's still for more apex predators, male or female, taking down heard it's three more wolves to disperse from the pack, to create new packs. So I don't think they need as many as meant as many clubs. As you know, a shock or crocodile. Definitely a tradeoff between parental care and offspring numbers. It's very you say that that tradeoff definitely applies, whether or not it applies to a great extent or not. I don't think it does. Not In this not for mammals, not in this case. No, because if if they bred, if they held as many young as like as yours do China, it would be wolves are overrun the place and then they'd have bad impacts on the ecosystem, you know, they'd overkill. So I don't think there. As for for the ZEPPA Shark China, since we've been talking, we've talked about the princial care ofvars and it. You've already mentioned about how they counter out that with the ZEPPA Shark. It will. You said, it's kind of a quite of a lazy type of animal. It does it's quite slower compared to other sharks and it doesn't have the big scaryes tee foot sharks are known for, as well as because it hurts differently. How is it pre text itself from predation them? So zeppa sharks aren't really predated upon that much obvious. See the fact that they live in such subtropic areas. They're not really predated upon because obviously in that area they are kind of, you know, the top dog, as it were. They obviously will be eaten by larger sharks at times, and so the most time that they will be kind of worried about predators is when they are young, and so when they first hatched and things like that, that's when they're more likely to be predated upon, which is why the mother obviously tries to find and crevices and kind of almost hidden places for the eggs to hatch. The main Predator for Zeb shots is actually humans. Now, I know that sounds really weird because obviously, like we don't just swim in the water and bite them, but it's they're mainly caught in bycatch in fisheries in Malaysia and Thailand and places like that. So the main Predator for them is actually, you know, fishery net so obviously, because they are such slower, kind of lethargic animals when it comes to the Predator of humans coming in, obviously that's an added kind of pressure that isn't usually going to be there. So previous to day that wouldn't have been there because obviously we hadn't kind of industrialized the fishing industry as much as we have now. So definitely that is one of that is a very good advantage. Disadvantage than is the fact that they are obviously not going to be the fastest escaping fisheries and bycatch and things like that, which is one of the reasons why they are so endangered them. I've got one for both of you. Much. Do you think it's a disadvantage or a weakness to be alone? Do you think that's a weakness compared to like the walls, because the wolves are really there's no weakness. Okay, their weakness is usually when there are alone. Yes, yeah, so, yeah, it can be seen as a weakness being solitary, but when you're able to grow to twenty three foot long and have such a men's power, because crocodiles, the Sowa crocodile, it's is by force is three thousand...

...seven hundred pounds per square inch, which is the second biggest bite for US living today. So it's it is more than capable of defending itself to be alone. And when you're the top dog of the swamp and you've grown, you've grown to such a men's size, you nothing's really going to pick a fight with you of another crocodile which you can square up to yourself. Being a solitary for these guys isn't too much of a problem for them. It's more of an issue for them to live with other crocodiles, because then more fights will break out and more injuries will occur. Okay, what about you trying? And so obviously I mentioned before with Max's question, because several sharks can be up to three meters, if not longer, when fully matured, which for females is about six to eight years and for males is about seven years, once they reach this size. Obviously, in coal reef systems these are kind of the really big haunt shows of the reef like, you wouldn't really think that these guys have any predators, and so being solitary really isn't an issue for them because obviously there's not many natural predators. There are occasions where larger sharks like tiger sharks and bullshocks and things can feed on the smaller, separate sharks and things like that, but it's it's very rare that zebra sharks will have a natural Predator that isn't humans, and so humans really are the biggest kind of predators to that. So therefore they don't really have much of an issue being solitary if you take away the human impact. Okay, that's fair enough. All right, we've found to come to our last question. So it all show. I do you nenthusiasm for each field shows animals. So what made you choose them? Kind of call a guess. So an interest for me with crocodiles is they've always been a favorite for me as a kid and they're essentially one of them, one of the closest things to resemble dinosaurs over them birds today, and one of my biggest passions growing up is palatology dinosaurs and the fact that crocodiles have lasted at the dawn of the dinosaurs and rained supreme before the DINOSA has got their peak. Interests me even further. And the the largest reptile to live in current time. There are are perfect Predator forged by eons evolution. It is just an incredible animal. For me, Line Marx have been obsessed with wolves and so I was young. In my opinion, they like the Apex Predator or the terrestrial world. I think the hierarchy structured dwarfs that of lions and herds of deer. The fact that they animals that dwarf them in size as well. I think it's fair to say matches as preserved throughout. So much for the work of the changing world. So even though the walls there's a don't compare to the crocodiles and there up shock in that way, they did live through decades of hunting. They outcomputed their large cause and the dire wolf, and they even formed a relationship with humanity, to which we now house descendants of them, which I think is definitely a point to say as well. I think everybody as well makes the case that wolves are smaller than a counterparts, but for what people consider a small animal. It does incredibly well considering its environment. It's competition and the same in China's case, the human brutals. Yeah, so, similar to Dan and Max, I've always kind of put a love for sharks. Obviously we touched on it when we talked about the sciences and things. So it took me a while to actually figure out which species of shark I was going to do because obviously there's so many species of them. I did want to talk about sharks in general, but I think through working with Zebra sharks specifically and watching their behavior, was the main aspect I was taking from this. Is a case of, you know, kind of to whoever's listening, hoping that they will kind of take away that sharks aren't just a mindless thing, that they actually have their own brains and they have their own personalities and that they have identities and things like that. So that was one of the main reasons why I wanted to talk about these guys, is because of how much of a firsthand experience I have with this specs and with kind of learning about them as well. Yeah, it's good if I wasn't moderating bass. What beaceful here? Yeah, we have to make sure. I don't know, just saying I don't know. Okay. So that's it for our questions. I think dating an excellent first day and it's been really interesting to try something new. So we're going to move on to a judication. I'll provide feedback for each of us panelists and give my opinion on who gives strongest dog. Yes, I just want to say it. Firstly, all of these are very interesting points and I've learned something new about each animal, which is really nice. Yeah, okay, right, China, hello, you get some very excellent points. It was very easy to follow what you were saying. So it felt very planned out, which was very good.

You are very good at surprised questions. What I did feel like you need to speak more ask more questions during the other sections. So when Max and Downe was speaking, all right, next, God ready. Same with China. I felt like it was very planned out, easy to follow. The fact that we fluded references to studies is very good. You are very good at question other people that time. Did you feel like you're waffling? Okay, fair enough. Yeah, constructive criticism. Yeah, yeah, all right, marks. Yeah, again, very interesting points. I learned a lot of things about crocodiles. I didn't know which was very good. You're very passionate about it as well. But why have to say is it didn't feel as planned out as the other two, which is maybe something to work on. Okay, in my opinion they all felt very good. It was difficult to decide between everyone who I thought was the best. Swear we need lad there, the countdown theme going under with so heat, the countdown thing, so copyright. Come on, remix of it. Just get us to play on his guitar there. Yes, okay, go you. My opinion it was between two people. It was very hard to pick for I feel like Dan. Well, Yay, congratulations, very good at the debating part. That's all I have to say. Like towards the end, you got very into it. Was Shutting other people down. I told you the wolf had no weakness. No, get it, you want maybe twice the size it was the last time we saw him. I must I do after a Greave, Juliet, because Dan did have some very good arguments, not just for biological but offer into the history of mythos as well. With the wolf. Went in you. He went hard on the research and I applauded for that. Good one. Down to be job wheel. I was a real try hard on the researcher and I did a Chin if I worked on on this podcast has an assignments and that if you put a lot of effort into the research. But because it just had to be I did feel like Dan can and bass not that I agree. I feel like Dan has pretty good debate skills as well. That's feel like. I feel like the debate skills were something obviously because we don't do a lot of debates in our subject itself. We've not really I mean I know for myself I haven't really done a lot of specific debate work. So when it came to like surprise questions, I wasn't I wasn't worried about that, whereas things, you know, the debating aspect of it, it was kind of like right, okay, I can do this. So it's very constructive criticism and I will admit, Juliet, you you've definitely given us things to work on as podcast hosts, as students and, you know, hopefully as people as well. So we'll also be hosting a poll on our twitter for you, the audience, to vote on who you thought if the best, because ways and we all know. We all know. This is just our opinion. We want to hear yours. Yeah, I'm but yeah, we are. We all know that the twitter polls never lie. That's true. It proud to be so I'm going to hand back over to match the ALTRO. Yeah. Well, I hopefully you guys enjoy the episode as much as we did. This has been great. Guys, so, audience, I've got a question for you. Which one was best cut.

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